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Poster: craven714 Date: Dec 8, 2007 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: another day that will live in infamy

John Winston Lennon
This day 1980

Rest in peace

I will spend all day paying tribute to this person

I hope you will at least give a moment of prayer and
rememberance

"That is all I have to say about that"............

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 8, 2007 7:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

... a simple RIP and an amen brother could have been enough, but as usual, our cerebral ways often lead us astray. In the end, he was a well loved guy that got shot fucking dead for no apparent reason other than his fame. RIP, John, RIP.

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Poster: craven714 Date: Dec 8, 2007 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

amen brother

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2007 7:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

yes, that porridge is just right. Thanks much!:)

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: Dec 8, 2007 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtACNmlplKo&feature=related

Aim At The Heart
Lyrics: Robert Hunter
Music: Robert Hunter

Time doesn't fly
Just hangs over like the sky
It's we who go by
Makes no difference how or why
Everything you cherish
Throws you over in the end
Thorns will grab your ankles
From the gardens that you tend
Damned if you do
Double damned if you don't try
Caught on the fly
Hello fades into goodbye

Aim at the heart
Don't ask whose love you're stealing
Aim at the heart
Even when it's too revealing
Aim at the heart
I tell you, aim at the heart
Aim at the heart

Sitting on a back street many years ago
The tears from your eyes did flow
Feeling out of place inside the time when you were born
No place else to go
Suddenly a rainbow rose
And spread across the land
Hung there while the Beatles sang
I want to hold your hand

What can you say?
Here tomorrow, gone today
Faith fades away
For idols with their feet of clay
Keep your head upon your neck
It's not too late for that
Even though the winds of change
Have blown away your hat

Aim at the heart
I tell you, aim at the heart
Aim at the heart

Kiss it and pass
Time become a looking glass
Where love combs her hair
Look again, she isn't there
The echo of her laughter
Fades into the western skies
Where ribbons that you bought her
Are reflected in her eyes

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 8, 2007 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

The date resounded in my mind, too. John's spirit lives forever.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 8, 2007 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

I don't get the mythology of Lennon. Sure, a great writer and love many of his songs, but as a role model and/or activist, I find he leaves an awful lot to be desired. I don't go looking for flawless heroes but what did Lennon do that is so worthy of respect? Please illuminate me (and then someone tell Julian).

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 8, 2007 10:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

For a start, millions around the world took it to heart, and continue to do so, when he said "all you need is love" and "give peace a chance."

Julian isn't taking my calls.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 8, 2007 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

They took it to heart. Good for them. Did John?

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2007 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

Agreed BD. He's no Abe Lincoln. Just an outstanding artist who's influence is all over music, even today.

Keep in mind....in the 80's millions also Fought for Their Right to Party.....:) Just shows the depth of the masses.

This post was modified by high flow on 2007-12-08 19:31:13

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 8, 2007 12:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

And he was part of the greatest supergroup ever. Too bad it was a one off- they could have been the greatest collective of junkies on parade ever:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w-l036TANTQ

Yer blues john....

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 8, 2007 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

I find it pretty irksome that you guys are putting in such an effort this day to trivialize someone whom so many of us held in such high regard, especially when somebody took the time to commemorate what was an enormously sad and pivotal time in the lives of so many of us. Can you possibly be more disrespectful and insensitive? No class. Have you ever lost someone you cared about? Next August 9th, maybe you'll also remind us how trite it is for people to remember when Jerry Garcia died.

You don't get Lennon's impact? Ever hear the line, "You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"?

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2007 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

Yeah, yeah, yeah...Elvis too. OK. Fine.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 8, 2007 2:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

Fine. I lack class. Guilty as charged. If I could become a little bit more self-righteous, I might gain some wisdom, huh?

I've lost plenty of people close to me,and I didn't say that Lennon's music doesn't still move me or that Jerry's doesn't as well. The point I was making is I don't get the mythology of Lennon (nor Garcia). I actually posted the rock n roll circus clip because I do like his music. In fact, I tend to prefer Lennon's solo efforts over the Beatles because of it's directness and lack of frilly studio effects. (And I erred in that while only a one-off with Keef, of course both Alan White and Clapton played in the version of the Plastic Ono Band in Toronto).

As far as "not learning", I fully realize the impact of Lennon on people/ideals as the wall outside the French embassy in Prague had a huge handpainted portrait of Lennon that was a rallying/gathering spot for Czech student leaders and others for the Velvet Revolution. After living for close to a decade behind the former Iron Curtain and traveling broadly in the region, I understand the impact the music and the MYTH had on folks. But when I read and learn more about Lennon, I find him sorely lacking. Sorry for having my fuckin' opinion and daring to intrude on YOUR space. I just think looking to Lennon for leadership on peace and love is like Clinton asking Jesse Jackson for guidance on marital issues. Have I taken stuff from both Lennon and Garcias' music? Of course. But I also tend to agree with Keith Richards who reportedly said,"love is fine, but try to pay the rent with it."

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 8, 2007 2:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

Nice post. I chose not to delve so deep. I get sad when lots of famous folks died, it's just all pretty much the same. Death and great legacies. Lennon is a piece to the greater puzzle...just like you and me.

Hendrix. Fine.
Morrison. Great.
Janis. Yeah, OK.

Lennon is more like Muhammed Ali. They both transcended their craft and had a greater impact on the world, I think we all understand that.

However, they are artists(or athletes), and do not ascend to the heights of great inventors or defenders of freedom. IMO. Humbly. Really.

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Poster: craven714 Date: Dec 8, 2007 5:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

BryanE--thanx bro

bluedevil- you are entitled to your opinion. I think you
are making this more cerebral than usual or necessary.
I mention
nothing of "mythology" or myths, you did. In my case,
it was just one persons thoughts and mourning of another
person. John Lennon touched our lives in different ways,
thats all. The more you "learn" that he is a scumbag, the
more he will become that to you. I simply choose to hold
him in a different light.

I hope I dont sound like I am trying to defend myself.
There is nothing to defend. Just my 2 cents also.

I truely understand the greatness that BD brings to this forum.
I always look forward to your posts BD. Whenever your
name is on the screen I know when clicked,it wont be a
bunch of shit. You continue to have valued input.
and I thank you
And I look forward to whatever you have to say.....

TRY TO SEE IT MY WAY,
DO I HAVE TO KEEP TALKING TILL I CANT GO ON?
WHILE YOU SEE IT YOUR WAY,
RUN THE RISK OF KNOWING THAT OUR LOVE MAY SOON BE GONE
WE CAN WORK IT OUT
WE CAN WORK IT OUT

THINK OF WHAT YOUR SAYING,
YOU CAN GET IT WRONG AND STILL YOU THINK THAT IT'SALRIGHT
THINK OF WHAT IM SAYING
WE CAN WORK IT OUT AND GET IT STRAIGHT, OR SAY GOODNIGHT
WE CAN WORK IT OUT
WE CAN WORK IT OUT

LIFE IS VERY SHORT, AND THERE'S NO TIME
FOR FUSSING AND FIGHTING MY FRIEND
I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT IT'S A CRIME
SO I WILL ASK YOU ONCE AGAIN.

TRY TO SEE IT MY WAY,
ONLY TIME WILL TELL IF I'M RIGHT OR I AM WRONG
WHILE YOU SEE IT YOUR WAY,
THERE IS A CHANCE THAT WE MAY FALL APART BEFORE TOO LONG.

LIFE IS VERY SHORT, AND THERE'S NO TIME
FOR FUSSING AND FIGHTING MY FRIEND
I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT IT'S A CRIME,
SO I WILL ASK YOU ONCE AGAIN.

TRY TO SEE IT MY WAY,
ONLY TIME WILL TELL IF I'M RIGHT OR I AM WRONG,
WHILE YOU SEE IT YOUR WAY,
THERE'S A CHANCE THAT WE MAY FALL APART BEFORE TOO LONG
WE CAN WORK IT OUT
WE CAN WORK IT OUT


oh, also, highflow. I dont know how this ties is exactly
but you mention Jim Morrison in on of your comments.
Well, today would have been his 64th birthday.
the Beatles "when Im 64"???
Coinsidence???? I think not!!
yeah, whatever...right?

Anyway I didnt feel compeled to listen to The fucking
Doors all day now did I?

To itch his own.....I mean each
peace out.....The White Album is next...
ANYONE GOT A PROBLEM WITH THE WHITE ALBUM???
besides Jesus Manson I mean........................

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Poster: patkelley Date: Dec 8, 2007 3:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

I kind of agree about Lennon. He was like the Bono of the 1970s, except more of a trouble maker.

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Poster: BryanE Date: Dec 8, 2007 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: another day that will live in infamy

With such a detailed rationalization of whatever the intent of your initial comment was, I cannot imagine anyone being more self-righteous than you already are, especially with the irrelevant details you made sure to include regarding your experience abroad. But as someone reaches out because of a sense of grief, and you take it as a cue to direct snide negativity toward the person who is being remembered, there exists a huge need for you to gain some of that wisdom you mention, as all that time behind the Iron Curtain blah-blah-blah-blah-blah sure didn't do it for you. But if you were fortunate enough to have seen so much more of the world than many of the rest of us, it also proves that, yes, you are guilty as charged. All that you have described amounts to a vulgar attempt to glorify your own past in order to somehow augment what appears to be a huge esteem you have for the validity of your own viewpoint. Making note of that part of your background as an example of all that you have witnessed does not indicate a greater insight you have into the man's influence. It merely comes off as hubris.

When remorse is expressed in a perennial recognition of the violent murder of someone who had touched people's hearts, whether the people whose lives were touched numbered in the single digits or ten digits, to immediately treat that remorse and commemoration with such callous disregard shows incredible arrogance and ignorance in equal doses. To ask, "What did Lennon do that was so worthy of respect?," within the course of our recognition is rude, obnoxious, and offensive, and to express umbrage at my pointing it out to you is ludicrous.

Craven and I were sharing our feelings about something that hit us very hard. It was painful, shocking, and heartbreaking and the horror of it still resonates. To paraphrase your own words, your fuckin' opinion IS an intrusion on OUR space, and to preface that by saying "Sorry" is bullshit and you know it. You're not sorry. Yeah, you are welcome to your fuckin' opinion, and my opinion is that you had little more in mind when you stuck your nose into it than to be a jerk. So don't look to Lennon for leadership on peace or love or any damn thing, but when you treat the sorrow of others with blatant scorn, it's a sure sign that you had better start looking for it somewhere.

Did John take it to heart when he said "all you need is love" and "give peace a chance"? I don't know. Let's ask him. Oh wait, we can't BECAUSE 27 YEARS AGO TONIGHT HE WAS SHOT TO DEATH!!!

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